E085 – Interview with Jessica Ivins – Part 2

Jessica suggests that accessibility is a competitive advantage. The more people can use your product, the more likely they are to spend money on it. Thanks to Twilio for sponsoring the transcript for this episode. Make sure you have a look at: Their blog: https://www.twilio.com/blog Their channel on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/twilio Diversity event tickets: https://go.twilio.com/margaret/ Transcript Nic: Welcome to the Accessibility Rules Podcast. This is episode 85. I'm Nic Steenhout and I talk with people involved in one way or another with web accessibility. If you're interested in an accessibility, hey, this shows for you. To get today's show notes or transcript head out to https://a11yrules.com. Thanks to Twilio for sponsoring the transcript for this episode. Nic: Twilio connect the world with the leading platform for voice, SMS and video at Twilio.com. In this episode, I'm continuing my conversation with Jessica Ivins. Last show was really good. Do check it out if you haven't already because we spoke about important stuff, but particularly around education and designers and how the Center Centre, where Jessica is working incorporates accessibility throughout the curriculum, rather than give one accessible classes somewhere less than the end of the program, like so many other schools do. So welcome back, Jessica. Jessica: Hello. Thanks for having me again. Nic: We finished last week talking about what your greatest achievement was. Let's start this week with what's your greatest frustration in terms of web accessibility? Jessica: My greatest frustration in terms of web accessibility? I would say, that's a good question. I have to think about that for a minute. I don't know that it's a frustration. One thing that's been on my mind lately is all of the... So I think there's a double-edged sword going on here. I think there are good things and bad things about this. But there've been a lot of attention lately in the past year or so in particular, about accessibility lawsuits and companies kind of having the CYA reactive measure to the commonality of lawsuits now. How they're doing across accessibility audits and they're trying to basically retrofit their designs because they're afraid of being sued. Jessica: While I think it's a good thing that lawsuits are raising awareness of accessibility, I also really hope that as the awareness is happening due to a legal reason, I hope that the awareness evolves and that more companies, especially not necessarily design professionals and developers, but the people above them. The people who have the power to make decisions and the people who control the money. I am hoping that what this kickstarts is that, those people in power start to see accessibility not as a liability and something that they have to comply with to keep from being sued, but more like a part of good design practice. Jessica: Because, as you know Nic, that when you make something accessible, you tend to make it more usable for everybody. So it's part of good design practice and part of just the right thing to do. I'm hoping that we start to see a shift now that, instead of lawsuits becoming more prevalent, that companies are trying to CYA and protect themselves. That maybe this will kick the snowball down the hill and as that snowball gets larger, more and more people, and especially people in the companies who have the power to make decisions and the power to spend money, will start to invest in accessibility. Jessica: Not because they're afraid of lawsuits, but because they want to produce great design that works well for their customers and brings in money, by the way. Because it's not just about making things that are easy to use, it's a competitive advantage. The more people can get done with your design and the more they can accomplish, the more likely they are to spend money on your product. Nic: It's this thing that, we were looking at accessibili