Jean Eddy: Impacts of Career Exploration on K-12 Learners

Jean Eddy, President & CEO of American Student Assistance (ASA), discusses how middle and high school students can develop career awareness and gain meaningful workplace experiences before college. Drawing on research showing middle school as the optimal window for career exploration, Eddy details ASA's digital platform approach, which reaches 15 million students through engaging, mobile-based tools that help them discover interests and connect to potential career paths. She emphasizes the critical "testing and trying" phase where students need hands-on experiences, highlighting ASA's grant-making initiatives that fund intermediary organizations bridging gaps between schools and employers. The conversation explores scaling these efforts through policy engagement and community buy-in, with Eddy advocating for making career exploration an integral part of education rather than a disconnected add-on for teachers while offering practical collaboration strategies for all stakeholders to help students find paths that "make their hearts sing." Transcript Julian Alssid: Welcome to Work Forces. I'm Julian Alssid Kaitlin LeMoine: And I'm Kaitlin LeMoine, and we speak with the innovators who shape the future of work and learning.  Julian Alssid: Together, we unpack the complex elements of workforce and career preparation and offer practical solutions that can be scaled and sustained. Kaitlin LeMoine: Work Forces is supported by Lumina Foundation. Lumina is an independent, private foundation in Indianapolis that is committed to making opportunities for learning beyond high school available to all. Let's dive in. We've spent much of our time on this podcast exploring learning and career pathways, especially for college students and adults, and while those conversations are important, we also know that it helps learners when they begin a process of career exploration much earlier on in their academic journeys. By the time someone gets to college, it can often be too late for foundational career exploration. We need to help K-12 learners develop an awareness and curiosity of various career options, get them age appropriate experience and help them link their academic interests to the world of work.  Julian Alssid: That's right, Kaitlin, and it's something we both know firsthand. We both started our careers in innovative high schools, where we each designed project based and experiential learning opportunities intentionally integrated with internships and real world experiences. We so, you know, we understand the complexities of this work, particularly figuring out the right level of exposure to workplace skills and experiences for young people, you know, how do we best help them explore, gain experience, build social capital and discover their likes and dislikes?  Kaitlin LeMoine: Yes, it is about developing the skills and awareness learners need to navigate the world of work and thinking about practical implementation. It's about working with employers who can meaningfully support this process, and about providing educators with the time and creative space to make these integrated learning experiences happen.  Julian Alssid: This is a complex topic to unpack, and that's why we're so pleased to have Jean Eddie with us today as President & CEO of American student assistance, or ASA, she's leading the charge in changing how kids learn about careers and prepare for their futures. Jean is an accomplished leader with over 30 years of experience in higher ed, and has held leadership positions at Rhode Island School of Design, Brandeis University, and Northeastern University. She's a nationally recognized speaker and subject matter expert, cited frequently in major publications and a contributor to forbes.com Jean is deeply committed to student success and is the author of crisis proofing today's learners, and co host of The One Question Podcast with Michael Horn, who was a recent guest on Work Forces. Jean, we're looking forward to discussing ASA's innovative approaches to career readiness for middle and high school students, and how you're reaching them in new and novel ways. Welcome to Work Forces. Jean Eddy: So happy to be here, looking forward to the conversation. Kaitlin LeMoine: Yes, so are we Jean. It's such a pleasure to be with you today. So as we dive into today's conversation, can you please tell us more about your background and what led you to ASA?  Jean Eddy: What is interesting is I met a colleague this morning for breakfast, quite early, and I worked with that person at one of the colleges that you mentioned. We were talking about the fact that we worked with a lot of young people who are on a college campus, and they really didn't know why they were there. And my colleague was basically saying that he oftentimes felt as though he was taking care of young people who were really not they couldn't find their own way. And I would have to say it reminded me of my own journey. I was in high school, and no one approached me about what was next. Never talked about it, never got prepared for it, etc. And if it weren't for the fact that I ended up, after leaving high school, going to a community college, I was lucky, you know, I met people who were interested in me and wanted to kind of show me some way or some path. Who knows where I'd be right now. But I guess, you know, I ended up in higher education because I was so taken with my own experience at a community college. And I worked in higher ed, as you said, for a number of years, but I worked with a lot of young people who really didn't know why they were in college, and I would say that some of them really should have taken another path, and instead, went on to college, spent an awful lot of money that they didn't need to spend, and then ended up with quite a bit of debt that they had to repay somehow, some way. So fast forward now to ASA. I became involved with ASA because ASA is a federal guarantor, and as a person who worked in higher ed I was on the board of ASA for a number of years. And why, why I was interested in ASA is because of the fact. They were really committed to helping young people. It was a very personal relationship, which with a lot of guarantors. It was not but at ASA, it was. And I stayed committed because I was so interested in how they interacted with students. When I was asked to become the CEO here, which was eight years ago now, we were talking about how we could think about working with young people before a problem arose. What we were doing was basically trying to put a band aid on something at the end of the day, rather than getting in front of the problem to see what we could do about that. So we did an awful lot of research and found out that the best time to really talk about careers was in middle school, and that seems kind of young, you know, sixth grade, seventh grade, but what we found was is that kids who are in that age bracket are really open to exploration. They aren't hardwired that they want to do this or they want to do that, and furthermore, their friends haven't made such a huge impact on them that they don't they were willing to go and find their own way. So we then did research about, how do we interact with these young people? What's the best way to do that? And we tried a number of things, but at the end of the day, what we found was we needed to kids meet kids where they are, and that's on a mobile device that's on their cell phone. So like it or not, 97% of the kids who are between 13 and 18 year old, 18 years old, have a cell phone. And so we created mobile, friendly programs that would allow young people to, first off, go out and have fun. Because to me, learning is all about fun. Let's start with that. It doesn't need to be something that's imposed and sometimes treacherous. It's rather what can be fun. So the first thing we developed was something that allowed a young person to have fun, but to basically do puzzles and games, which actually came up with kind of an indicator of things that somebody was good at, but moreover what they liked to do. And then we showed them all kinds of ways to be able to get to that in a successful career. And it's not to say at someone who's in the sixth or seventh grade is saying I'm going to be an X, but rather, I'm interested in these things. And let's see all the possibilities for if you're interested in this, what is possible. And then we went on to build more programs that allowed kids to test and try, which is really key here, testing and trying, having them figure out, maybe I like this, but is there some aspect of it that I really can't do or I don't want to do? And so when we develop these programs, testing and trying, really came in in high school, and the reason for that is by the time students leave high school. We want them to have a plan. And so it's not that again, that they have a road that's absolutely mapped out, but rather, this is the this is the path I can take to see what might come of this, to see what might come with what I love to do with what I'm good at. And can I be able to relate this to that job, that career, that pathway? Julian Alssid: Great to hear the bit about your journey and and the genesis of ASA. So. So now, what are the Could you give us an overview where you are now at ASA with the types of initiatives that you're focused on, and what are the key problems that you know you're looking to, the key challenges or problems you're looking to solve. Jean Eddy: So, you know, the initiatives that we are working on currently, you know, I mentioned the digital we have four digital programs which really bring students from the discovery phase right on through the testing and trying, you know, getting a mentor, getting an apprenticeship, understanding how to be able to get ready for to dress for success, all those kinds of things. There are many, many things kids can do there. We have about 15 million kids on our platforms at any given time. They're between 13 and 18 years old. But in addition to that, we also work with schools, school districts and states who are interested in infusing this kind of a career exploration into their into their curriculum. The biggest one I always talk about is Delaware. Delaware is the nice sized state you can get your arms around it. So we worked with a couple of other funders to basically put career exploration into middle schools in Delaware, so every kid in Delaware has an opportunity to do this kind of career exploration. But I think the biggest challenge we have is the next step is the testing and trying. Because I would have to say, I. So we need employers to be able to help us do that. But any employer will tell you, and I've talked with many, they don't have the infrastructure to be able to provide that, and sometimes they are. They are quite hesitant to get into this, because, again, they don't have the staff, they don't have the know how, and they cannot figure out how to connect with the school district with a system. So a lot of our initiatives are now working with intermediaries places who basically go in and they take care of the things that need to happen at the high school and things that need to happen with the employer, and we do a lot of funding in those respects. My favorite is the caps network. They are national, and they basically give they work with employers and they work with schools to be able to have kids have first hand experiences in how a career could actually map out in a given field. They are beyond impressive. I could talk about them all day, but there are many of them. There are also states who get involved in this, and I will pick on Rhode Island native Rhode Islander, we've worked with skills for Rhode Island for a number of years. They are great intermediaries in basically bringing employers and schools together to provide apprenticeships and internships for young people to test and try. So I think that that is, that is, I'm going to say next big Frontier, we need more opportunities to connect employers and schools in a way that makes sense, and it actually it works for everybody. Kaitlin LeMoine: That last point, you just ended on Jean right? I feel like that's where the rubber meets the road. And all of this work is like, how to make these, these relationships happen? What are you I know, you know you mentioned the intermediary work. What are some of the best practices, or like strategies that you know that are working well to bridge those gaps? Because I think that for so many you know whether, whether it's actually higher ed institutions, K 12 institutions, employers. It's about like, how do we bridge those worlds and in a scalable way?  Jean Eddy: So, I think that there are a few things, getting the word out is incredibly important, thought leadership and getting people to understand or or be able to see the kinds of opportunities that are available. But moreover, the funding that is available. There are a lot of programs out there right now, and we participate in some of these funds, which basically back financially, back opportunities for employers and schools to be able to come together and do this kind of work. And one thing I didn't mention before is the amount of grant making we do, and the grant making we do has everything to do with those kinds of opportunities. Historically, we've given up between $10 and $20 million a year, and it is to fund those kind of opportunities where they have not existed before, or to grow networks that you know have started off but have not how to reach across the country, because what we're trying to do is impact kids everywhere. You know, not only in the places that I think, with the northeast, we have so many colleges and universities, we are so focused on kind of these connections, but there are parts of the country where that's not the case, and particularly in the middle of the country. You know, it's really up to us to do a better job in connecting those intermediaries who work in those places to provide opportunities for young people who otherwise are thinking, Okay, what do I do next? You know, what are my opportunities? And they're not as I would not say that there's not a rich as rich of an offering as there could be, because kids just don't know.  Julian Alssid: So I get the scaling with, you know, your the digital stuff, and how that you know you've been able to reach so many young people directly, I guess my big question is, with the work, with the intermediaries, or the sort of the partnerships, how does that scale? And how do you ensure that it can live beyond the life of your grants? Like, how does this get baked in to what communities do, what educators do, what employers do, and then, how do you scale that? Jean Eddy: You know, we worked with the state of Massachusetts, and we funded a program that basically put pathways into high schools. It was one of Governor Baker's big initiatives and part of his legacy, I would have to say, the idea in doing some of these things. And we did it in Delaware as well. We did it in Rhode Island. As you start to fund these programs, you do it with the hope that you're working with policy makers who are going to encourage the state legislature to put it in the budget and have it move forward. And that has happened in every single one of these cases, I would have to say you have to have buy in, not only from the intermediary and the school and the employer, but you also need buy in with policy makers, because if they don't believe this. Yes, and they don't see, I'm going to say a road map for a state prospering. It's not going to go anyplace. But again, in the state of Massachusetts, we have an enormous shortage in the trades, construction, tech, skill trades, and we worked with the workforce council here to try and develop programs that would allow us to be able to, I'm going to say, start the pipeline for the jobs that we cannot fill and and that, I think, is really it's a problem that we have across the country. We have so many unfilled jobs right now, and I do believe that half the reason why we have that is because young people are not aware of those jobs, and we're not doing the best, the best work we could possibly do, in making sure they know it, but moreover, that they could try those things and find that they could fall in love with something that they didn't even know was existing.  Julian Alssid: Interestingly, we have been working in Massachusetts on the very topic, actually, with the community college and focused on manufacturing. And it's incredible the opportunities that are going wanting because kids and their families know nothing about these roles and the paths associated.  Jean Eddy: You know, just this morning, I was listening, I think it was on NPR, they were talking about the fact that there are wait lists for kids in technical high schools, and that they are trying to now impose a lottery system to let young people in, just that is such a telling update on on what is happening in this state. But moreover, in this country, we should be thinking about, how do we integrate the aspects of those vocational high schools into all of our high schools to give kids an opportunity. And I'm not saying that there aren't high schools who do that, because there are, but it usually requires either a principal or a super superintendent who has that drive and that feeling in their gut that this is what has to happen, and then they make it happen. We need more of that.  Kaitlin LeMoine: Yeah, and that combination of both of the leadership, and then, as you mentioned earlier, Gene, the financial backing as well, right to, like, especially for some of the more technical programs that require a lot of equipment and, like, lab space, right? I mean, like, the infrastructure required in some cases is is more significant than others. But like, that's another huge factor in this whole effort. One thing that I find really fascinating about the different digital solutions that ASA has built is it seems like it's a pretty low lift for schools to implement and for learners to engage with I'm curious, how do what's the split? I guess, that you see across like learners who engage with these tools on their own as individual users, versus who are introduced through a classroom like experience like, how do learners come to these materials? Maybe individually? How do they find that? Jean Eddy: So I would say, by and large, young people come to us directly. We have, obviously, connections with teachers, with superintendents, etc. And many will use our products as a way to have a hybrid experience. As far as career exploration is concerned, they are using it for that purpose. So they're basically saying, Go out to asa.org, look at this, look at that, etc. But by and large, most of it is coming from kids who come directly to us. And I think I when we first started talking, I talked about the fact that I wanted kids to have fun. So what we basically do, I'm going to say, we invade the time that young people are using their phones, which is on average, five hours a day, which is frightening to me, frankly. But we approach them and it's something that they can take it or leave it. So we go through Tiktok, Snapchat, Instagram, etc. We throw out these things. Invite kids to come in. They either do it or they don't. Most of the time, we find they do it. We have a high level of engagement, but it's got everything to do with that. They're seeing it as this is curious, this is fun, and then suddenly we're opening up another world to them, and then kids stay and so we have four platforms, and it's amazing to me that they keep going. And of course, again, it's all about fun. So I think that that is really the key to this, and what is really, really important, particularly with with young people in this, in this generation of young people, they want agency. They want to be able to say, I chose this. This is what I want to do without some someone imposing it on them. So I think that we've got to, you know, we're meeting them where they are. They have choice, and they're having fun. Kaitlin LeMoine: I really I appreciated your earlier insight about the research around this work, and like at what at what ages young people are most open to this exploration. Because it, I think it sometimes can feel like, the closer you get to the end of high school, it's like, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? Right in the creative kind of space to explore, it gets maybe a little bit more narrowed, and maybe, as you mentioned, influenced by peers. So I think it, I really love the the process of going from like this discovery phase, right, really, like a design process, and a lot of ways of thinking about like, just this, this discovery earlier on, and then narrowing as one goes through this journey.  Jean Eddy: When we first started investigating this, and the research that we did, and I met a number of wonderful faculty members at University of Virginia, New York, university, et cetera, having these conversations. And I was actually surprised people always talk about the fact that a toddler has this immense capacity to be able to take in information and process it. But likewise, kids who are in the 13-12, 13-14, years old, their brains are working pretty much the same way. So to be able to offer up all of this information, they're ready for it. They're ready to take it in which, you know, I absolutely love and one of the things we also found out, and one of the things that kind of pushed us to move earlier, is the fact that the stress level young of young people, particularly in high school. We monitor it. We've researched it. From the time they were freshmen in high school to their senior year, the level of stress goes up exponentially, so that now it's a case of, what am I going to do? How am I going to do it? Where am I going to find it? Etc, rather than okay, let's take a step back and really think about, what are the kinds of things that, you know, and I always use this phrase that makes your heart sing. You got to do this a long time. So what is it? Julian Alssid: Yeah, it's funny, when you talk about the stress levels going up, it's kind of like, you know, they're building muscle early on. And you know, it's these muscles that that, if you're going to be successful and happy and make your heart sing, you're going to have to figure out who you are and what do you like, and how does it fit, and how do you apply your skills, and how does it tie your academics, et cetera, et cetera.  Jean Eddy: Yeah, and it's a lot. It's a lot to ask a young person. It's really a lot. And all we're trying to do is help them kind of find a pathway to some of that, but it's not going to all magically appear at one point in time, which is why we have to start so early. Kaitlin LeMoine: Well, and I think especially in a moment where you know, the job and career landscape seems to be like shifting beneath our feet, right? Like it's, I think, all to have digital tools that can help support those conversations, maybe kind of a little bit more agnostic to exactly what's happening at the you know, this present moment in time regarding AI, right? And the impact there. Like to be able to take a step back and just say, like, wait a minute, let's think about your interests, your passions, like transferable skills, right? Like that feels like a very productive place to start and to have that those digital solutions as a grounding tool in for that learner and for educators, I would imagine, would be very helpful as well.  Jean Eddy: Yeah, and it's just one step in the process. It certainly can't be the whole thing. And I would have to say, I applaud the role that teachers play in this. What I'm trying to figure out is, how can we integrate some of the things that we've learned into the system without overburdening overburdening teachers, because they have too much to do now I know that, and how are they supposed to change the curriculum, get things in there about career exploration rather than being an add on. You know, in some places again, have had to use policy makers, employers and entire communities to make this change. One of our grantees is out in Cajon Valley, right outside of San Francisco, and that Superintendent of Schools basically fervently believes in everything I've just been talking about, and their entire school system, from kindergarten right on through high school, embraces the thought of career exploration and how you connect courses that you take in high school to how you could use them in a career. I remember when I first heard about cajon Valley and the world of work, my immediate response was, these are our people. How do we find them? How do we connect with them? And we did. And then we started, you know, granting them funds so that they could add on to different school districts, which they've done. So it is possible, and it is it is strong. A movement.  Julian Alssid: So that's a perfect segue to a question that we ask all of our guests, gene which is so our audience really represents the various stakeholders that need to be a part of this, from the employers to the educators, hire secondary policy makers, etc, even ed tech people who need to be a part of this. So what practical steps can our audience take to become forces in initiating or supporting efforts to provide earlier opportunities for career exploration and exposure? Jean Eddy: One of the things we do when we do more and more and more of it, this is that we host meetings at major conferences across the country to be able to pull in those constituencies, to have conversations, we have to start conversations with everybody sitting in the room. So it's a case of, you know, employers, it's policy makers, it's educators, all of those people have to come together and we have to start a conversation. I would also say parents need to become involved in this as well. They need to be raising their hands in their school districts, talking to their representatives, talking to school committees about the things that really need to happen to give the young people the absolute best experience they can have. So that is certainly a start. But I would also say that we need to do a better job in getting the word out, as far as bringing people, everybody into opportunities where they can see this live. So I'll give you an example. There is a program out there called school links. It's in high schools across the country. That program right now, and you know, we are partnering with them. They have 160,000 employers on there, on their site. They're in school systems. They have employers there, and it gives them an opportunity to be able to go out and connect in relevant ways. We need to be doing more of that, and there are opportunities to do that. We ourselves are partnering with Jobs For the Future to basically create a site that kids can go to, employers can go to, teachers can go to policy makers can go to that will allow people to see available training programs, how you pay for it, how a major in college or a training program that you've been in can relate to a job. It allows employers to go in to see young people who have the credentials, but more over the interest in some of the jobs they offer. These kinds of things are going to bring everybody in. It's going to pull everybody in I should say, for those people who care about it, and I would say most of us care about it. Kaitlin LeMoine: Right, this is, this is an initiative, right, that I think, as we think about like learners, who then become part of our workers and broader society, everyone cares as we wind down our conversation today, Jean, this has been such an insightful conversation. We've learned a great deal. How can our listeners learn more and continue to follow your work? Jean Eddy: Certainly go to asa.org there's an awful lot of information on that. And I am not, I am not plugging my book for any other reason than to say that it's an opportunity to see the thinking behind what we do. But moreover, some of the things we are doing in ways that people could get involved. You know, crisis proofing, today's learners, is the is the name of the book. And any proceeds for the book just go back into funding the things that we do for kids. So it's it's and I would also say it's an easy read. It doesn't sound like a textbook. It doesn't read like a textbook. It's a fairly easy read.  Kaitlin LeMoine: Great. Well, thank you so much for for sharing more about ASA, the initiatives that are top of mind for you, some of the initiatives that are have been a bit more long standing. We really appreciate your time today and look forward to continuing to follow your efforts. Jean Eddy: It's been my pleasure.  Julian Alssid: Thank you so much, Jean. Jean Eddy:  Thank you.  Kaitlin LeMoine: That's all we have for you today. Thank you for listening to Work Forces. We hope that you take away nuggets that you can use in your own work. Thank you to our sponsor, Lumina Foundation. We are also grateful to our wonderful producer, Dustin Ramsdell. You can listen to future episodes at workforces, dot info or on Apple, Amazon and Spotify. Please subscribe, like and share the podcast with your colleagues and friends.